Mike Kemp/Jeff Randall Debate

Which Side Are You On?



The following item recently appeared on Claire Wolfe's WWW Page concerning a debate between Mike Kemp and Jeff Randall which I had seen previously in PGP format sent to me by Mr. Kemp. Part of the reason Mr. Kemp sent me this message was to demonstrate to myself that Mr. Randall, formerly on our side, had irrevocably gone over to the other side. While I am mentioned later in this message, the main debate, to my mind, concerns the never-ending battle of wits and propaganda between the combatants of both the criminal regime as represented by Mr. Randall and the revolutionaries as represented by Mr. Kemp.

I regret that Mr. Randall, out of a sense of hurt feelings, decided to go over to the other side. He really was an effective partisan for the Resistance side until his own egotism and inherent nature of absolute self-idolatry bent him over to the other side. His criticisms of the absolutely ineffective and idiotic militia movement at the time he left and still today are regrettably right on target, and a continuing source of criticism from myself. Yet, as can be seen below, Mr. Randall is really a partisan of the current criminal regime, regardless of its criminality, today.

However, Mr. Randall has a point in that much of the opposition to the current criminal regime is not so much a point of principle, but often just the response of another group of the uncivilized and uncivilizable mattoid element which does not know what it would replace the current criminal regime with. The Establishment LibberToon element, such as Claire Wolfe, has been so indoctrinated with the criminal regime's propaganda concerning the wonders of integration and multiculturism that even though they choose not to live the lie, they yet insist that everyone else must believe the criminal regimeist propaganda.

I would assert that when someone believes in nothing other than oneself, one is easy prey for whichever way the wind blows. This is what ends up making even the formidable Mr. Randall into nothing more than a damned Ken-the-Snitch McWilliams, a Red Mike Vanderboegh, an Ed-the-FiBbIe-Dog or self-righteous LibberToons who profess to love everyone but actually love only themselves. When one has no allegiance to anything but ones' own self, one becomes easy prey to a criminal regime without any source of direction whatsoever, one is unable to crawl out of the ditch into which one blindly stumbled. The only cure for such a short-sighted form of solipcism is religious or political faith in something outside ones' own self.

I will comment later in the form of notes concerning this matter at length.

--Martin Lindstedt



Introduction by Claire Wolfe:

The following exchange is between Mike Kemp of the Gadsden Minutemen and Jeff Randall, the former Minuteman who, with Mike, exposed racism at the BATF's Good O'Boys Rally in 1995. Randall shortly thereafter left the militia movement. Mike shortly thereafter was arrested on a warrantless raid (for cannabis), and today performs voice stress analysis (VSA) for various freedom-movement groups, hoping to root out informants. This dialog is long, but it is the best distillation I've ever seen of a principled position vs. a "pragmatic" one. Which side are you on?

This is presented with Mike's permission. Jeff Randall reluctantly acknowleges within the text that he knows Mike might choose to make their discussion public.

Jeff composed the original message; Mike is responding. The copy is presented without any editing. (Warning: Some strong language included.)



JEFF: First of all.....sorry about all the mis-spelling and grammar mistakes - the mind moves faster than the fingers :-)

Continuing with the self-defense debate..... I must ask the following question Mike - have you ever been shot at where an angered person was actually trying to take your life (No! being arrested with guns held to your face doesn't count).



MIKE: Sorry, Jeff. My thrust is to address the preponderance of the circumstances relevant to the self defense issue-- a minimally trained individual using awareness and the possession of a firearm to avoid or terminate a personal attack. Something relevant to the majority of the people in this nation. I'm not talking about Rambo running around of his own volition in harm's way.

And if you think that a gang of thugs carrying badges assaulting me with the hope of having an excuse to kill me doesn't count, well, what world are you living in? A few of them are extremely lucky that I chose to make a specific choice to show the thuggishness of the system. I had every reason to believe that I was going to jail before it was over with. I chose to play by my own rules -- that is what a free man does. The next assault (and there will certainly be one, for I continue to live by my own rules) may well result in a different outcome. Having demonstrated the uselessness of working within the system, having adequately demonstrated that they are power-mad and intent on preserving their privilege, next time I am at liberty to exercise my options, just as I was the last time. You and they should never forget that there are other options as well-- all sorts of other options.

JEFF: What I'm asking is if you have ever felt that uncontrollable fear that comes when a person you don't know has decided to end your life. Let me tell you what happens to a cherry. First of all after the inital flurry of bullets, your mind refuses to believe this is happening...you sort of go blank with no fear or reaction. Then is hits you that someone is aiming to take your life....adrenaline kicks in and you begin to shake uncontrollably, you piss in your pants, and you finally wake up and all you can think about is am I alive. Every fucking thing you've been taught and schooled on doesn't matter for a while. It's sort of like being in a major wreck, which I'm sure you may have been involved in (guessing?) only mutliplied by 40 times. On more than two occasions I have had this uncontrollable fear, the first was during an accident I was involved in on hwy 278. I was on a farm tractor going up the road when an 18 wheeler attempted to pass and cut it short due to oncoming traffic, the back wheels of his trailer climber over the back of my tractor with me watching. I was not hurt - not even a scratch, the farm tractor was totaled out. There's a brief period of time, maybe 2 minutes that I can't remember. From the time I felt the trailer impact and the water from the tractor tires going everywhere, until the trucker actually got stopped and come over to me is completley blank. The trooper and ambulances that arrived at the scene could only say that it was a miracle. My second brush with this came as a police officer with Attalla - got in a gun battle and didn't even know what was happening until the bullets began to kick debri into the back of my head and body - luckily the guys were drunk and missed, cause the adrenaline had me so confused that I was enjoying the fucking show and din't take it seriously initially...after it was over with, every officer there couldn't hold a cup of coffee. The other times do not need discussing, but you begin to get better and quicker on your reaction times and realizing what's taking place. I say all of this to verify my position on self-defense, until you've been there you will NEVER know how you will react. Monday morning quarterback all you want, but it's nothing like the defensive and "shooters" books tell you it's like. All the range time and "awareness" training in the world will not prepare you for that one time a serious attacker decides to take you out. If an un-expected situation comes you will freeze initially, since your brain is in shock not being use to this type of action. The only way to ever overcome this is to practice in real world situations with real people that are really trying to kill you. The edge of not knowing whether you will live or die makes for a HUGE difference in your ability. I believe you know how precious life is. I believe the reason you did not shoot at the cops who arrested you is because you wanted to live (I call bullshit on the "official" statement of "there were kids in the neighborhood").

MIKE: I have been in life threatening situations. I worked at hazardous jobs for much of my life. Whether it is a psycho (or a bunch of them), or an uncontrollable accident in progress, or dealing personally with medical emergencies, adrenalin is flowing and you must keep your mind in control. I've been there, and done that. I've done it on many occasions since I was 18 years old. I haven't insinuated myself into other folks' lives. As you well know, goons have insinuated themselves into mine. I feel little threat of a psychotic (except those who carry badges and think that they have a right to do so) trying to *take me out.*

JEFF: I AGREE with your decision to give up, but you must also agree that principle is everything until you have to pay for it with your life and no one else gives a damn. If this situation ever comes again, you will submit. And this will be the proper thing to do, since you are no Weston, you are not psychotic. Why should any of us put ourselves through the remote chance of dying when it's so simple to just live, get along & progress with our goals? I know the arguments you will make on this statement, but i say that everything always has a way of coming full circle.

MIKE: I made the correct decision for the time and circumstances. Times and circumstances change. And there is something that you really don't realize, or pretend not. Things don't change -- individuals change them. Is life so dear, is peace so sweet, to be purchased at the price of slavery? There are leaders, there are followers. There is a thing called principle. You mention that I am to be trusted. That is because I live by principle. I am willing to pay for my principles with my life, if necessary, because I have a great deal of trouble living without principle. I am also willing to kill on principle. I really don't care whether others agree with my principles, it doesn't matter that others know or care. I am superior to those who live by expediency, and I am ultimately answerable only to myself and God.

JEFF: If the government's doing wrong, then in time government will be changed - one hard-headed man or a thousand will not change it immediatley. You will change things quicker by working within the system and being unintimidating than you ever will by "sticking to your guns." You're a reasonable man...why can't you see this point? It's okay to stand on your beliefs, it's not okay to deprive your friends and family of you being alive. You can believe this or not, but it would truly hurt me to see you dead. You have too much to offer to this world, and there's not a lot of folks like you - people with intelligence that is. Mike, the militia movement is a dumbass, dead cause that couldn't fight a revolution if it were handed to them. They're idiots and you don't belong in that association.

MIKE: The *militia movement* is not about fighting a revolution -- not one like you reference. It is about sovereign individuals asserting their rights. It is ultimately about the many standing together for the individual rights of all. Many of them are not overly intelligent. Many are. In any grouping, there are leaders and followers, the bright and the less bright. The less bright always outnumber the bright. It is sad commentary that most of the brightest these days have no grounding in principle. This is not an accident. It is the means by which the intelligent are kept under control. All too many of the brightest, lacking principle or courage or both, live by simple expediency. *Eat me last* is the watchword of the day, and the majority hide in their holes. The *militia* doesn't want a revolution-- they want a return to lawful government, and are just obstreperous enough to stand their ground in the only ways that they are able.

JEFF: An eye for an eye is not the way Mike. If you really want to do some good in the world and change your system then quit being so defensive and debatable on every fucking issue that comes along that doesn't completely conform to the militia or your interpretation of the Constitution. Show your willingness to support the lesser of what you consider two evils and then you can change the lesser one. Painting all agents of the ATF, FBI or local law enforcement logically makes you their enemy...an enemy that they have the means of destroying at any time. Supporting the ones that are the lesser of the evil, makes you somewhat of an ally, then and only then can you change that person's thinking. Once he's comfortable with you he will listen, if you're defensive and unwilling to compromise for the time being, then you better fight your war from a position of strength...which you and the whole militia has never had and will never have.

MIKE: I shall not support an evil, knowing that it is evil. That makes me no better than they, and places me in a position which I cannot defend, not to myself, not to anyone. I could hardly care less about *the law.* The only reason that we were ever in any fashion *free* is the sovereign individual right to be armed. ATF is dedicated to the proposition of my being armed on their terms, which means, ultimately, that I am disarmed. All public servants, each and every one of them, have sworn a personal oath to protect the Constitution and my rights. They are to BE my servants, not my masters. I don't paint all of them-- I stand on THEIR oath; if they can't live up to it for fear of the privileges which accrue to them for violating their personal oaths, I can hardly help that. They don't like having their violations pointed out to them. Therefore they paint ME as their enemy. I haven't bothered them; they have gone out of their way to bother me. And now, since they have tried to terrorize me into submission, I should let them have their way? Boy, Jeff, you really have bought a bill of goods.

JEFF: I know guys inside the ATF that want the system changed as much as you, good guys that do a job everyday whether it's right or wrong. These are truly thinking and compassionate people that uphold laws right or worng made by people more powerful than themselves. They can't turn to the militia or right-wingers cause they're the "enemey," they can't complain to the bosses cause they'll get fired, but they do manage to talk among themselves. Proper people with intelligence could make a big difference some day by talking with these people. Not lying to them, but seeing all sides of the issue and changing the system a little at a time, using the systems own laws for an advantage. An old Sun Tzu, or properly, Sunzi tactic.

MIKE: I'm the militia because I fit the dictionary and legal definition. I'm part of the armed citizenry, for whom this nation is alleged to exist. If the poor babies have chosen a course wherein _I_ am obliged to compromise, and they are too cowardly for fear of losing their privilege, I hardly feel the necessity to oblige them. I routinely placed my job at risk because I flatly refused to compromise principle. Perhaps it is a telling comment that (most) of my bosses didn't fire me, because I did what was RIGHT. And I got the job done. I was even threatened with criminal prosecution at the nuke, for doing what was RIGHT, for doing what I was hired to do. But I had a boss who took a bunch of cringing sissies to the woodshed, not just in MY defense, but because it was RIGHT, and to live with HIMSELF, he was required to support me.

JEFF: Mike I could tell you story after story about what I have experienced in the past couple of years, but you would never believe my sincerity or compassion until you have seen and been through what I have. I've seen war torn countries, befriended their people, and it's absolutley not like what you think - or the mainstream media tell you it is. I've seen people fighting a revolution from a position of poverty and suppression. People who can't speak out against the wrongs like we can, but have made more strides to change things than the militia or patriot movement will ever be able to, and i've learned their tactics, not unlike mine. I've met the most free people on earth, living in a state of tyranny. I'm not saying that we as a country should be like them, but our people could learn a lot about attitude from these people.

MIKE: Can you not see that we are well on the road to being in exactly the position of poverty and suppression of which you speak? That if we don't have the courage to be free now while it is possible without wholesale bloodshed, it is inevitable that we will be forced to live in total subjection? Or, will be forced to try to fight our way (or, actually, our children will, which is worse) out of total subjection, when it will be much more costly and much more difficult?

JEFF: Give me their attitude with our capablilties and this would once again be the most crime free, lawful, and free nation that has ever been conceived. Living where you do and not expanding on your thinking has imprisoned you to one thought train. You have not allowed yourself to tap the possibilities for real change. You now fight a battle of "me against them." The whole militia fights this same battle...just look at misc.activism.militia.

MIKE: Yeah, I'm trapped into thinking that I'm free and therefore have the responsibility to live free, in order to preserve what is my children's proper birthright -- that I don't have the option to compromise and squander it away, because it's easier to slide along compromising with my inferiors.

JEFF: There are people praising Rudolph for the killings, just because the ATF is searching for him and wants him in connection with the bombing. Mike 2 wrongs don't make 1 right. Even if the ATF did wrong at Waco, does this mean we cannot support them when they do right.

MIKE: They cannot be right. They have no authority under the real rules of the land. If I pretend that their power is authority, then I have given away the only arguing position that I have.

JEFF: I'm not trying to fight you on Constitutional issues here. Whether they are righ or wrong, there is a set of laws and regulations that have been passed.

MIKE: I certainly know that you are not. An unconstitutional law is of no effect and is to be ignored. It is our responsibility to do so. Fuck their statutes and regulations. I obey the LAW. They just want personal gain and comfort and privilege. Fuck them. I'll not stoop to their level. I can't respect anyone who does.

JEFF: Personally I don't like seat belt laws but I abide by them because I can't change them by being threatening. I have to work within the bounds dictated by the current system and if this means folks go to jail because they are stupid enough to bury pipe bombs on their property when they know it's against current law, then I will support that until the law is changed. Do you realize how many ATF agents feel that most of the laws they enforce are purely stupid....many - but until it's changed someone will enforce it. And you or the militia has no recourse when facing your so called enemy, because they have the ability through every means possible to convict you -

MIKE: Then they are everything that I personally find them to be -- my enemy. If they won't do what is right for fear of personal consequences, then it is clear that we, the people, have not imposed on them even more severe penalties for NOT doing what they are obliged by their own oath to do. At risk of repeating myself -- fuck them.

JEFF: whether that's right or wrong why take the chance when you can do something productive and work within the system? This is not about "us against them," because a lot of them do not know how to change the system they're stuck with. You want pure honesty , then you've got it. Although you may not be willing to believe this post, I'm being as honest as I know how. If you break a current law, then you will go to jail. If I break a law, I will go to jail. Even though there are those who can break laws and not go to jail, you cannot turn your back on the whole system - because that type of system is called "Life." No where in the world will there ever be a system that's truly honest and judges every man equally - it's just a fallacy of human nature.

MIKE: Oh, I believe that you are being *honest.* A man without any principle, except self preservation. An animal, without redeeming human virtues of spirit and knowledge of right and wrong, and the spiritual fortitude to act on certain knowledge, for fear of personal consequence. You've heard me say it before-- where would black folks be, if Rosa Parks hadn't told the *powers that be* *fuck you and your laws, I ain't gonna sit in the back of the bus?*

Of course, the *powers that be* have managed to preserve their sorry, putrid little selves by twisting the effort around, placing black people, and us all, in an even worse set of circumstances by placing us ALL in the position of begging government for privilege, perverting the efforts of good people who were trying to preserve the rights of us all, and placing us all in the situation that you would have me accept, that of beggin' ol' massah to be good to us, we promise to do what ol' massah says, jus' pleez doan huht us, and eat us last.

JEFF: Even though I don't agree with your politics, we live in a country that allows you the freedom to attempt to change what you feels needs changing. That's the reason this country is so great. And I shall support every law and enforcer of that law until the system is changed.

MIKE: Whah, thass mahty damn white of you, boss. Jest how d'ye pr'pose that it's gonna change, boss? You think that all them fools are a'gonna git a case of conscience and mend their ways?

JEFF: I'm still conservative and believe that there are numerous things that need changing within government and society, however, I will fight to change these issues within a system that I can make a difference.

MIKE: You may consider yourself *conservative.* I certainly don't consider myself *conservative,* not by your definition, or the popular definition, or any other one. If anything, I am closer to a classic liberal than any definable term, though I am leagues away from any modern definition of the term *liberal,* which is just another example of government-sponsored *newspeak.*

JEFF: If this means helping the government to lock up those who have knowingly broken laws, then so be it. Yes, it's true that I believe the militia to be some wacko group of nutcases - always have. And if you really look hard at the movement you will see that their system of government would be more tyrannical than any that has ever been in place in this country. Damn Mike, there's not even any good tacticians or strategist in the movement - something that doesn't require money or power to obtain.

MIKE: Many of them have a truly perverted sense of what proper government is. Many of them just want to be in charge. Fuck them too. But I'm smarter than they are, and I'm principled, and I can lead them. They don't have authority, and don't have power, and in a properly governed system, they never will. Of course, in a properly governed system, every last one of the goons who DO have power (but, alas, NO authority) would be swinging in the breeze on a gallows or under a street lamp or tree tomorrow morning.>

JEFF: Face it, the ONLY thing the miltia movement ever done worthwhile was the GOB roundup - something that you advised me against doing. And this was just a hyped publicity stunt that "we" stumbled upon. As far as I'm concerned these off duty officers had a right to do anything they wanted as long as it was legal - racist or not. In a way, the GOB was the downfall of the militia movement's beliefs - straying from the principles of true freedom - Ironic.

MIKE: Face what? That it was a publicity stunt? I've said that from the beginning. You know that. So was the Boston Tea Party. And the only reason that I counseled you not to do it was fear that you could get your ass in a world of immediate trouble, because I knew that it wasn't MY style, and I didn't know how to properly carry it off. You did, and my hat's off to you. However, once it was within my ability, I placed myself knowingly and willingly at risk in the exposure of it, because that IS my style. If I have it in my hand to use, I KNOW how to capitalize on it, and you have damned near fucked it up in the meantime. However, you haven't quite managed that.

Did they have a right to be racist, though, in light of their personally accepted oath to support the Constitution and all our rights? They had voluntarily ceded those rights. And they certainly had the *right* to face the consequences of their actions becoming public. Bullshit on your *downfall.* You don't have a fucking clue.

JEFF: Weeding out informers is not the militia's problem, trying to keep themselves from being dumbasses is the problem. Sure [A radio host friend of Mike's] audience pretty much likes whay you have to say...but seriously speaking it's a targeted audience cause most folks that don't agree will change the channel. I hate to tell you this Mike, but you win no REAL support by harping on the same issues, never agreeing with anything government does....that's not a support winner.

MIKE: No, Jeff, without their informers and their *laws* which have absolutely no authority supporting them, real leaders would have had at least a fighting chance to form up those of lesser ability and intelligence into a real and effective force for proper and peaceful return to founding principles. THAT is how the dumbass quotient is kept low. Now, it is going to be slavery or wholesale slaughter. Let government do something worthy of support, and I'll support it. Until then, fuck them.

JEFF: Let me ask you a question...do you ever watch boxing matches? Every guy that loses always has an excuse for losing. Just once I would like to see the loser get up and say, "Well, what happened was the guy was better than me and I get the Hell beat out of myself." To me that would be a real man...someone with unmatched honesty and integrity, someone that admitted his downfalls and in turn will receive a huge amount of support.

MIKE: Oh, yes, Jeff, I've played an awful lot of competitive sports. I've won, and I've lost, and I've been beaten. They are three separate circumstances.

JEFF: I realize your "enemies" don't do this, but if the militia would (even if it were not true), then you would see a turn about in public support. When a fool gets caught with pipe bombs, then support the ATF - right or wrong - and you will gradually see a revolutionary support from the populous that new governments are made of, beacuse the truly bad people within your enemy will step on their own dicks and lose support. When you see someone you know doing illegal acts - turn them in and crow about it. You want to see change and fight a true revolution then it must be fought from a tactical mindset. Yeah theres gonna be some little guys get stomped, but this is about the big picture, the end result that leaves something good for your kids. You had your run in with the law and got stomped on. The best thing to do is turn a neg into a pos and use it. Don't do ANYTHING illegal, allow the warrantless searches and say "yes sir." Hell...offer, and help the guys you don';t like...it really fucks up the ballgame and throws leverage to your issues. You try to save this world one little man at a time and you will most definitley lose the battle. That's not opinion, that's military fact! I'm trying to explain how to fight and win, not just fight because it's right!

MIKE: No, Jeff, without personal integrity, I am nothing. I am not worthwhile to myself, and can't be worthwhile as a leader. I pushed for Slick to get elected, because this country needs a good dose of his filthy socialism. I openly stated it, while pointing out every speck of it along the way. I've never pretended to go along with it. As far as my getting stomped, you can go whisper in your buddies' ears that they made several big mistakes, missing their several opportunities to kill me. Now I am placing their every sniveling little snitch and informer and collaborator at risk, thereby placing their whole system of enforcing empty laws by terror at risk. And, with the genie out of the bottle, my incapacitation, incarceration, or death will not stop it.

JEFF: Countries have been formed and dissolved by these unconventional tactics. We're not living with the honor and integrity that this country had 200 years ago. In order to win a war one can no longer rely on the "enemy" to fight an honorable fight, nor can you rely on your unpaid soldiers to remain loyal - to truly win and ultimatley restor integrity you must utilize every deceptive, guerilla and unconventional tactic known, and a few that aren't :-). If you fight this battle to win, it can only be won by applying Sun Tzu tactics - as Al Pacino said in "The Devil's Advocate" - "I love vanity - gets them everytime." To win a war where the odds are overwhelmingly against you requires the ability to use the tools of the enemy. This you will not gain by "in your face" tactics.

[The radio host] is in a position of real power and she may not even know it. I've incinuated that fact to her and to also be careful. You have always been in a position of power due to your intelligence, but unwillingness to bend your rules to win. Your problem is you dwell on little things like the Constitutional right for pot smoking, growing, gun ownership, and every other thing the little minds are fighting about. Fuck it, just accept those petty laws, bend your rules a little, and formualte a real plan of ultimate success. The two of you together operating without help from the militia could do big things for the causes near and dear to your heart.

MIKE: Who is asking for militia support? And I live free, Jeff. Do you want me to talk about intellectual freedom? Search and seizure? The right to be left alone? It comes down to principle, as expressed in a real world situation. I live free. I'm out in front. Most of the *militia* is disorganized or underground. I'm in public, talking to the public. I speak to issues relevant to real people in a real world. I'm not a hypocrite.

JEFF: Personally, I don't get involved in any politics concerning the US. I don't even care anymore. You can't get a debate outta me on anything concerning government. I've concluded there are too many idiots on both sides. So I move on to a crueler but saner world - where the rules are understood and the cause is truly about freedom and not just someone wanting make the headlines out of petty issues (not speaking of you Mike) And like I previously replied, the game has changed, but my rules have remained the same from day one.

What I'm trying to tell you is I have never been against you, but on the same token I have never been for you. As for the militia, I am totally against them because they are not about anything except glory seeking and some type of fucked up revenge. I have waited many years for someone to rise up above the hype, name calling, and non-compromising stances to do something effective. Mike, you have that capability, but have never properly applied it. [The radio host] is a good friend to you and ya'll make an excellent team. Other than that, I have seen no one in the movement that is qualified. Rich was a complete idiot having a mind fogged with vengeance. Just look at the folks you surrounded yourself with - fucking deadheads, dope smokers, conspiracy nuts. Whther it's right or wrong, it's not going to achieve the plane you wish to achieve. Basically your a one man show that's been dragged down by a crew of idiots having you passionately fighting their causes and attempting to save every idiot Bob Starr that comes along. Always turn a negative into a positive and never fight a battle you cannot win - when you cannot beat an enemy you join him until the proper coup is obtainable paraphrased again from Sun Tzu.

MIKE: Who have I surrounded myself with, Jeff? You don't have a clue. Again, I'm out in front, leading. I don't care if people are following my lead or not. I hope they are, for their sake and the sake of my kids, but that doesn't matter. [The radio host] is indeed in a magnificent position of influence, and she got there by speaking to the issues of the common soul, who can respond to an appeal to right and reason. They may not have the integrity to follow through, the will to gather others and do something worthwhile, but she is doing just fine, in my estimation.

JEFF: I could rant on and on, but I'm afraid you all may be taking this personal when it's not intended to be. This is not a call to become close friends again. Although I want no physical contact with either of you or the militia, I still consider you friends. As I have done nothing to ever hurt you (please read below offer). Sure I intentionally disrupted and stressed people when I was part of the militia, but it was not for a government agency, rather it was to see how well dedicated and tactically sound this movement would be. It was also done as a threat assesment for later use should the movement be capable of physically hurting innocent folks. As you well know this is not my game...it may be others game but not mine. What happened is exactly what I predicted, the movement has failed miserably, people will continue to go to jail for there on stupid mistakes, and the public sees the whole thing as a menace which is the least of the concerns. Unlike popular myth, a revolution does NOT have to have the support of the populous to succeed, however, it does need to find some common ground - and I'm not just talking about gun control and other petty issues. The absolute BEST thing that can happen to your movement at this point is for the dumbasses to actually be put in jail. Let me make perfectly clear that I support no revolution or anti-government force existing in this country. I do not support any type of armed conflict, nor do I support the political rhetoric of the militia. My reason for this posting is to give you some insight on how things really work, whatever you do is your own thing and I want no part of it. Just wanted you to know who Jeff Randall really is, what I'm about and how I think.

MIKE: I know quite well what you think. Whether or not you are my enemy is YOUR choice, not mine. The only concern I have is whatever or whomever is in my way.

JEFF: Well sorry about the long posting. Just thought it was time. That's the reason I sent [The radio host] all the emails to forward on to you and also the posting to Martin from Robbie789@hotmail.com. . . I figured it would generate some contact. Don't worry, Martin's not an informant, but he is the type guy that will create exactly what you don't want to happen. You can tell him the truth, but it may be to your benefit to allow him to believe...think about that. The fight with Vanderboegh and the ABI is good for the movement.

MIKE: RobbieWHO? And why would you want the movement to prosper?

JEFF: Feel free to respond or ask any quaestion about me that you don;t understand or want a truthful answer on. I have nothing to hide anymore, since it's easy to see that nothing's changed. Yes I am a broken warrior for this cause.

I would appreciate if you and [The radio host, who received a copy of the messages] keep this email confidential, but if you insist on using it to trash me then have at it. Mike, [radio host], I'm not your enemy. I'm no one's enemy. The ATF, or any other governmental arm is not my enemy.

Okay, enough on the self-defense debate.....got another offer:

You formulate 20 questions or less that you would like for me to answer for your VSA - email them to me, I will email you the answers, then we will arrange a time for me to call and verify these answers on tape (needs to be weekend). Then you do your magic. If what you say is true about your capablilites, I think you will be rather surprised when you do the analysis.

Ask me questions such as "were you involved in my getting busted"- " have you ever informed to any law enforcement agency" - "are you on the payroll as an informant" - "what do you think about the militia".......that type of shit and I'll play by the rules you set forth by answering with 2 or 3 sentences. Just to make it fair for your side, you will be able to deviate or re-phrase the questioning as long as it pertains to the same question.

One catch though....you will be required to post all questions, answers and "test" results to the misc.activism.militia news group with your email address and certification that these are true results without any doubt in your mind and I will state on the tape that I am voluntarily taking your VSA test. Don't worry if you get inconclusive answers...we'll just keep doing it until we get conclusive answers to your satisfaction. I totally trust that you will judge your test fairly and have no reason to believe otherwise. This will also provide proof to myself about your capabilities and insight for my "F Troop" - which is not who you believe it to be. Ain't this what you always wanted - a Q&A session with a real informant/agent? God knows your VSA made Rick Bibby out to be a liar about what he was "attempting to do," so it looks like your sales pitch could use an informant that did a great job with the militia.

I do reserve the right to not answer particular questions which do not concern you, or certain specific details. All of this will be revealed in my email answers. And I request that this "test" not be made public other than through the militia newsgroup. You may send copies to the FBI, ATF or anyone else in government, but don't use my name in any public press such as radio, television or newspaper.

I'm calling your bluff, since personally I think it's another half-witted-maybe-we'll-get-lucky militia operation. Desperatley seeking for another GOB Roundup publicitiy stunt.

The reson I'm sending a copy of this email to [the radio host] is she seems to believe in this bullshit enough to back it. Also I want her to know that you have been challenged just in case you don't want to back your claims.

All this shit is a game to me Mike...always has been...always will be. Personally I think you're an honorable and good man... someone I would trust with anything I have or own, I've even stated that publicly, but I believe you are a little mixed up in your head about certain things and purposely use certain issues for attention. And although I don't see you as a threat personally to anyone and never will be (to include another bust from law enforcement), I believe the wackos out there take things you say to heart and cause the very things you preach so strongly against.

MIKE: You really don't understand, or you vastly underestimate me. Same as your attempt to involve me in some bullshit, unreal *demonstration.* Place a gun at your head? For what? You want me to play a game with your rules. Not bloody likely -- if for no other reason, there's absolutely nothing for me to gain. If I want to shoot somebody, I am perfectly capable of doing it from a lot further away than contact range. I know my abilities, and my limitations. Same with all this bullshit above. You wouldn't be offering if you didn't have some scheme. I do know you Jeff, and I really don't care to waste any more of my time with you. You have far outdistanced your usefulness. If you want me to know something, and you think that you know what those things are, then email it to me and cut a tape stating the questions and answers that YOU think are relevant and mail them to me. Tell me some lies. You certainly ought to have plenty of practice at that. Then I'll process it and use it as I see fit. I plain don't need it, or you. Nice try, though.





1. Such an attitude is prevalent in today's society, which is a farce of the anthem concerning how it is "the land of the free and home of the brave."

It also explains Jeff Randall's inherent nature, one which he took pains to conceal from the patriot movement when he claimed to be in it. Jeff Randall's first, and only allegiance is to himself. And thus he had no problem betraying the patriot movement any more than he will have a problem betraying his regime friends yet again. First he was a cop, then he was a 'patriot' and now back to being a gubbnmint-lover. Randall simply has no allegiance other than to himself. Thus whenever he finds that serving the side to which he has claimed allegiance to for the moment becomes inconvenient, it becomes time for yet another change of sides.



2. Exactly. Kemp is trusted because Kemp has principles. Randall is not trusted because Randall has no principles -- other than a never-ending self-love for himself to the exclusion of other professed allegiances.



3. Randall trots out the old chestnut that political change or 'reform' is best done by "working with the system." This is of course a useful lie that every criminal regime would have fools and cowards believe. No regime ever changes to benefit anyone but the rulers if the rulers have anything to say about it. King George III believed he had a perfect right to do whatever he wanted to with the colonists. King William Rufus Klinton believes the very same thing -- profess to be sorry that he got caught, and if only people will "work with him, why, "he will get back to the people's business" of getting blowjobs from page girls.

No corrupt criminal regime has ever peacefully reformed itself. Charles the First never questioned whether there really was a 'divine right of kings' untill it came time to chop off his head. Bill the Last will never be truly sorry until some militiaman is pulling on a rope draped around his neck. Such is the way of criminal regimeists -- never sorry until the people rise up in revolt and guillotine them all and pitch criminal regimeist children onto bayonets and pikes.

Randall deliberately discounts the only method known which guarantees reform -- revolution. Red, just Revolution. Merely the threat of it will give criminal regimeists pause, as that is the only thing they fear. Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.



4. Kemp is both right and wrong. The militia movement was never about fighting a revolution -- which is why it is irrelevant today, replaced by the Resistance Action Force Cells and Resistance Political Front operatives' insistance that their movement and Cause is all about Revolution. Moderation gets you nothing but extinction, thus irrelevance to the body of the living, as life itself is a seemingly chaotic negation of entropy.



5. When Randall was 'taking over' the defense of Bob Starr, he certainly did not speak in terms of Bob Starr doing exactly what the professional BATF informant classes accused Starr of doing, but rather the opposite. Therefore Bob Starr was most certainly set-up, not only by his fedrule informants burying pipe bombs on his property, but by his 'friends' like Jeff Randall, who were ostensibly overseeing Bob Starr's defense.

This is the mind of the professional informant and infilltraitor. Rather than admit that they, with their spying and agents provacateuring of the honest opposition are the problem, they choose instead to blame their victims for making them do evil. Of course they do this after the fact as if they had revealed their mindset earlier nobody would have trusted them. Now no one trusts them, and the criminal regimeist infilltraitors can be more easily revealed by means of their pro-regimeist mindset, such as that Randall and the rest of the criminal regimeists automatically display.



6. Kemp has Randall pegged correctly. Criminal regimeists are nothing much more than animals, fighting over money or power, with no other allegiance other than to themselves. And while Randall is far more intelligent than such as Ken-the-Snitch McWilliams or even Red Mike Vanderboegh, scratch below the surface and one always finds the same rancid self-righteousness.



7. Weeding out informers had better be even the militia generals' business, lest they be provoked by informers and infilltraitors into doing the dumb-ass stuff which the criminal regime will use to destroy them.

Randall, like Ken-the-Snitch McWilliams, certainly doesn't want a Resistance counter-intelligence to grow, weeding out informants and infilltraitors. The best way for this to happen is to organize infilltraitor-resistant cells of trusted people, and for each cell element to act as an information gatherer, reporting suspicious activity to Resistance Political Front operatives via anonymous Internet e-mail accounts. This way the Resistance becomes both undetectable by criminal regimeist informants and through this decentralized information gathering and propagation saves itself from the work of infilltraitors and informants.



8. Robbie 789@hotmail.com = Jeff Randall

X-Originating-IP: []
From: "Robbie Smith" (robbie789@hotmail.com)
To: mlindste@clandjop.com
Subject: red mike
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 12:30:02 PDT

Concerning Mike Vanderboegh and recent postings, he receives most of his 
information from a retired Alabama Bureau of Investigation agent, and 
former Vietnam era CIA asset, Bill Regness. Mr. Regness once headed the 
governor's Special Services unit until he was let go for his involvement 
with the Gadsden militia of which Jeff Randall was placed inside the 
group to report activities to the unit. Randall/Vanderboegh were 
attempting to network the militia groups in with activities surrounding 
Alabama law enforcement and international operations, but were thwarted 
by the Gadsden militia Mike Kemp's repeated outspoken contempt for 
police and their activities. Kemp served time in jail on drug charges 
from a sting designed in part by Vanderboegh/Regness and an informant, 
who we believe from strong evidence and the two informant affidavits to 
be Jeff Randall and a female companion working in conjunction with 
Vanderboegh/Regness at the time. This breakup of the Gadsden militia was 
in fact spearheaded by Vanderboegh and his alliance due to the press 
Kemp was receiving and his outspoken beliefs in drug use. Jeff Randall 
now has no involvement with militia, but continues to work as an 
informant for several agencies, most recently assisting ATF agents in a 
follow-up concerning Nancy Lord, Bob Starr and the Atlanta bombing 
cases. He also continues to be directly involved with Regness. Mike Kemp 
now has a small underground freedom network and remains relatively quiet 
concerning public militias. We have received copies of letters by Mike 
from a source at "High Times magazine" in which he requested financial 
assistance from their organization. Although he did not receive direct 
assistance from this magazine, he has resumed his drug operation through 
cut-outs and second sources. Another one-time assset of Vanderboegh is 
former Klansman Richard Hayward, infamous for documenting the Good Old 
Boys Roundup on videotape. He worked as a direct informant for the 
federal government naming a Gadsden militia member as a suspect in an 
Atlanta bombing. He later recanted his statement and became an alibi for 
the suspect, severing his ties with Vanderboegh and law enforcement. 
Hayward also filed reports to the Alabama Bureau of Investigation and 
Alabama governor's office concerning Regness and Randall. We believe 
these reports led to the demise of Regness and his association with 
active militias. Hayward became heavily involved in drugs, in 
association with Kemp and another local source. He fled his Alabama home 
after a Failure to Appear charge was brought concerning narcotics. As of 
12/97 he was being sought by federal law enforcement for information 
pertaining to recent events. According to our sources, Hayward has now 
faked his own death via a funeral home in Michigan and is continuing to 
work with a small cell of people. According to sources close to a former 
Gadsden militia and long time asset no longer residing in Alabama, Mike 
Kemp recently emailed a "do-not-repost" posting claiming Hayward had in 
fact died, but we believe it is a futile attempt to protect Hayward, 
probably being safe-guarded in safe houses by CI and white surpemacy 
groups. All of this corruption inside the Gadsden miltia directly 
relates to Vanderboegh and was construed by himself, Randall and law 
enforcement as an elablorate long term plan to break up the notable 
milita organizations, at the same time learning who the dangerous 
elements are. This very statement was quoted in an Alabama newspaper by 
Randall. Vanderboegh also reports regularly to a newly designed 
intelligence task force of federal law enforcement officials, and 
regularly communicates with long-time federal asset Ken McWilliams, most 
notably known within intelligence circles for assisting in the Republic 
of Texas affair and arrests. Vanderboegh constantly devaluates SPLC and 
Morris Dees, however, even with his outspoken and media-hyped bashing of 
Dees, SPLC has yet to list him among their dangerous patriot listings - 
makes you wonder. 

Please do not respond to this email, or publicly repost.

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

When I got this message from the unknown Robbie Smith via that unparalleled medium of espionage, the anonymous Hotmail.com Internet e-mail account, I of course honored the request to not publicly repost, nor did I respond. But I did send it back to Kemp for his response.

When one gets a message like this, one knows full well it is filled with information and misinformation swamped together, just as I do on occassion in order to smoke out infilltraitors and spies on occassion. There was no reason to reveal this information to the public at the time. While the feds know full well all the above information and the militia generals know nothing as they are incapable of good sense, in the interests of gathering Robbie789@hotmail.com as an information source for Resistance counter-intelligence I did as Robbie789 (as Jeff Randall called himself at the time) asked. Not knowing, but suspecting that Robbie789 was a fedrule disinformation artist, I asked Kemp for his comments and a guess as to who Robbie789 could be.

Also, out of the blue I had received a call from a past known enemy spy confirming much of what Robbie789 had sent about two weeks previous to the July 4 message. However, having compared the telephone conversation with the message from Robbie789, I knew that the regimeist spy was not Robbie789. However, the information concerning the events wherein Red Mike and the SE States Alliance Militia were in training together, with the SE States Alliance being wound up like a crank by Red Mike Vanderboegh, and a possible turf war between the FiBbIes and the Alabama Bureau of Investigation was of interest.

At the timeof this message, I was locked in a propaganda war with Red Mike Vanderboegh. Red Mike was spreading the message ala Moreass-the-Sleezester that the underground Army of the Resistance was largely Christian Identity by religion, White Nationalist by politics, and Nazi in overall outlook. With the exception of National Socialism, which is rather Red Mike's and the fedrule criminal regime's forte, I myself have been making much the same point. Today's Resistance is not composed of whining CONstitutionalists, NWO scurriers, and solipsistic mattoid militia generals, but largely of the faithful, devout, and fanatic natural-born revolutionary element which wishes to reestablish the social order in terms of reestablishing a White Christian Western Civilization. Red Mike, in conjunction with Moreass-the-Sleezester finds this natural revolutionary reaction anathema.

Red Mike of course found allies in other pro-regimeist moral degenerates such as Ken-the-Snitch McWilliams, Ed-the-FiBbIe-Dog, and the rest of the Tri-States Militia/Coalition, which were being unearthed at the time. Even the witless and silly LibberToon element, chose to reveal that when it came down to it, 'Toons were not interested in fighting a Revolution, but rather in writing foolishness concerning mythical 'Toon-like Revolutionaries. No big deal, but Robbie 789 confirmed that Red Mike was one of Moreass-the-Sleezester's pet militia generals. By infilltraiting and then commanding the SE State's Alliance, Red Mike was able to inform Moreass's SPLC Informer all about the activity of these militia generals.

So when Kemp sent me via PGP the debate between himself and Randall, Randall revealed himself as Robbie789. Now that this information is dated and revealed, it has no other value other than in the edification of the militia generals to show them how they have been used over the years. This is the end result of all intelligence -- eventually it is revealed and no longer a secret.



9. Randall is admittedly a liar, a sneak, a provacateur, an infilltraitor of the Militia Movement, and yet he whines about how he is a "broken warrior" for the Cause. What a laugh!

This is the sure sign of an infilltraitor -- they have no loyalty to other than themselves, and in order to justify their worthless lives they always have a sanctimonious, self-righteous air concerning their lawfulness and how we must save 'our' criminal regime from the Revolutionist riff-raff, etc., etc.



10.So after all manner of snivelling, Benedict Randall thinks he is Monty Haul, and got another criminal regimeist deal for you -- sucker!

As I recollect, I advised Kemp to go along with Randall, but not to play by Randall's conditions. If Randall passed the VSA, then it is because Randall is the stone-cold liar. However, it might well be that Randall gets caught like Ken-the-Snitch got caught, ever so confident like the professional liar that his lies will not catch up with him. Either way, it is understood that both Randall and KtS are professional fedrule informants, and that there is nothing to lose by taking up Randall on the deal, any more than KtS gained by taking VSA from Kemp.

Voice Stress Analysis is a useful tool for the Resistance, but it is secondary to proper Resistance organization by cell. I have found it always easier to unearth infilltraitors by catching them out in a lie, then tearing away the strands of their tangled webs. VSA is a useful tool for random de-weaseling, and in conjunction with proven interrogation techniques.


Posted Sept. 13, 1998.
Pictures added Oct. 5, 1998.



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